As some Purple and Red Line riders have noticed in recent days, Metro is in the process of converting ticket machines at stations to TAP only. That means that all paper tickets will disappear except for Metro to Muni transfers.
The conversion has taken place at ten subway stations and will continue in coming weeks to include all Metro Rail stations, as well as the Orange Line and any other Metro ticket vending machines in the area.
The bottom line: If you don’t currently have a TAP card, you will need one in order to pay fares at Metro Rail and Orange Line stations. (Please see below for more information for Metrolink riders).The ticket machines are being converted to TAP as a prelude to locking the turnstiles at some Metro Rail stations. The first gates are expected to be locked later in 2012.
When the ticket machines in stations are converted, Metro staff will be on hand for a few days to help customers with any issues. Staff are also handing out free TAP cards immediately after the machines are converted.
TAP cards are also available at Metro Customer Centers, online at taptogo.net, at 866-TAPTOGO or at one of over 500 pass sales locations throughout the Los Angeles area,
•For those transferring from Muni bus lines to Metro: Starting in September, when you purchase the transfer on the bus you will be given a transfer on a paper TAP card to pay your fare on Metro rail.
•For those transferring from Metro to a Muni bus: The Metro ticket vending machine will issue you a paper transfer that you can use when boarding a Muni bus. You will still need a TAP card for the Metro part of your journey.
•For Metrolink ticket holders: Your Metrolink paper ticket is still good for entry to the Metro system. Metro and Metrolink continue to work on the best way to get Metrolink on the TAP system.
•For EZ transit pass holders, an EZ transit pass on a TAP card will be available for purchase beginning with September pass sales. It’s a hybrid pass on a TAP card with a sticker. Tap the card on systems that accept TAP and show the pass on all other participating bus lines.
As the ticket machines are being converted, Metro is working to inform riders of the changes. Brochures have been put on buses, banners are hanging in rail stations and there are scrolling message signs on the ticket machines. You can find updated conversion information on our TAP fare pages on Metro.net.
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Mospaeda,
That answers only 1/2 of my question. I agree the need to call customer service at their hours is a pain in the butt when it can be simply be done online. Why should there be a $5 phone agent fee attached to it just so someone can do a few mouse clicks and a keystroke here and there when I can do that myself?
The second part however is still a mystery. What I was saying is that is there any way to get my money back if I don’t need TAP anymore?
Say like I have to move to San Diego for a new job and I still have $50 left in my TAP card. What happens to my money? Obviously there’s no use for me to transfer to another TAP card since I’m going to be using San Diego’s transit card, so how do I get my $50 remaining back?
Answer is simple:
Get rid of the expiration date and you have these headaches go away.
No need to transfer money from one card to another. No need to hire extra phone agents just to do this menial task. No need to pay $5 transfer fee or $2 for a new card.
All these waste of tax dollars can be wiped out easily by saying “sorry, expiration dates were a dumb idea, we’re getting rid of it just like how we should’ve done from the get-go like everybody else has been doing.”
Steve Hymon or Metro,
Would you or someone at Metro start answering these serious TAP related questions and how you guys intend to fix it?
By the looks of, it seems public opinion on this board suggest that it isn’t fair that TAP cards have expiration dates when nobody else does and that people cannot get a full refund for the remaining value of a card, especially if it’s something big like fifty bucks remaining on them.
I’ve been supportive of Metro up to this time, but unless you or someone at Metro provides a definitive answer, I’m not going to trust TAP and ride Metro anymore.
Hi Liberal Transit Supporter;
I try my best to answer questions about TAP from reader comments, Tweets and reader email. Questions are common.
I know that people do not like that TAP cards expire. I pass along reader comments and/or sentiment to the appropriate people.
Here is a post we did in 2011 about TAP cards expiring. This is not a new issue. The best advice I can provide is to be mindful of when your card expires and to either get a new card and have the balance transferred ahead of time or keep the balance low on the old card in preparation of getting a new card. I know it may not be ideal, but that’s the reality of the situation for now.
Obviously, it would be great if you continue riding Metro. But your mode of transport is a personal choice. We do our best to provide information about the Metro system.
Steve Hymon
Editor, The Source
Steve,
So basically there’s no way to get my funds back? So people who have huge sums of money leftover on their TAP cards has no way of getting their money back other than transferring over to another TAP card, nevermind that they might have no need for a TAP card (moving to another city, etc.)?
How can this be legal?
Hi Liberal Transit Supporter;
In terms of getting a refund, please talk to the TAP people. You may be able to get one. I don’t have access to the TAP system, etc.
In terms of legality, there are many products in the U.S. that do not offer refunds. In this case, TAP is not taking your money away. You bought a card; the small print says it expires. If it expires, you can transfer the balance to a new card.
I know many people do not believe it’s ideal. I have my own opinions. I’m not the guy in charge. The best I can tell you is that this is the existing system and if you are cognizant of the rules, I think it’s manageable. If you are a somewhat frequent user of transit, TAP cards can be useful. If TAP cards are the sole reason you aren’t riding transit, that’s your decision.
Steve Hymon
Editor, The Source
“In terms of legality, there are many products in the U.S. that do not offer refunds.”
WRONG. TAP cards are not a product. It is a prepaid card like a Starbuck or Home Depot gift card.
In the State of California, a gift card is defined as “one in which it is a prepaid and can be EXCHANGEABLE for goods and services with the specified amount.” Goods and services is the ability to ride the bus and take the train. This definitation makes TAP cards fall under the rules and regulations of CA Civil Code 1749.45-1749.6 (laws and regulations pertaining to gift cards 1749.45-1749.6)
http://1.usa.gov/N0PZuM
Legally, TAP cards has to comform with rules regulating gift cards. In the State of California, it’s called the California Gift Card Law.
http://bit.ly/23utBM
In the State of California, gift cards:
A. SHOULD NOT EXPIRE
B. SHOULD NOT HAVE SERVICE FEES
C. FULLY REFUNDABLE
The very existence of TAP cards in it’s form today is in violation of California law. I’m surprised no one has filed a lawsuit against Metro or no one in Metro has gotten a call from the State Attorney General or the Better Business Bureau.
Being a government agency does not mean Metro is immune to laws.
“In terms of getting a refund, please talk to the TAP people. You may be able to get one. I don’t have access to the TAP system, etc. I’m not the guy in charge.”
Steve, if you cannot answer this, we need someone from the TAP authority or someone higher up in Metro to answer this pronto. This is a serious issue that needs explaining, and don’t try to hide this under the rug that it’s not important. No clarity on how to get funds back, especially if it’s $50 or so is a big concern for all of us.
Plus, this article’s subject is that TAP cards are mandatory now to ride Metro Rail. The two issues of riding Metro and problems of TAP now go hand-in-hand. Whose to say that such issues won’t be a problem that haunts and plagues Metro for years to come as they fail to realize the seriousness of this issue? What is Metro solution to prevent this from happening?
Lower the maximum cash value limit to $20 instead of $100 so as people won’t get stuck with a huge amount that they can’t get back every three years?
How about posting a warning note of your suggestions on taptogo.net in big bold letters to avoid this from happening?
What about writing down a procedure on how to get your money back on the FAQ page?
Well MBTA’s Charlie Cards (a Motorola product) also have an expiration date problem, but how they fixed it was they updated the bit that has the expiration date and gave everyone another two year extension.
http://www.mbta.com/fares_and_passes/charlie/default.asp?id=22672
I sent this out to the Fox 11 News investigative reporting team and contacted State Senator Ted Lieu in regards to this matter.
If no one in Metro or the agency that handles TAP is going to explain or take responsibility what could be in direct violation of the California Gift Card law, then it needs to be done from the outside.
Being able to balance transfer the amount to another card is not acceptable solution to this problem. If a person for whatever reason decides to move out of LA and has no need for a TAP card anymore, that person is entitled to get a full refund of funds that are remaining on the card. It’s only common sense.
TAP cards isn’t a VISA card; it’s not accepted everywhere. If you have money left on a TAP card, you can’t go out and use it to pay for a Double-Double at In ‘N Out. The TAP card cannot be used in San Diego, it can’t be used in San Francisco, it’s only good for public transit in LA. That was the whole point of why California Gift Card law exists. If Metro believes it is above the law, we’ll see what they need to say in when they’re called up for some serious questioning up in Sacramento.