Metro Orange Line Extension to open June 30 with free rides and celebrations

Here’s the news release from Metro:

The Metro Orange Line Extension — a four-mile addition to the wildly popular Orange Line busway — will open to the public on Saturday, June 30 with community celebrations and free rides on the extension from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. The Orange Line Extension is going to connect with Metrolink and Amtrak and in so doing, further expand the regional reach of the fast-growing Metro system. And more great news for Los Angeles: The project is coming in ahead of time and well within budget.

“We’re thrilled that the Orange Line Extension will open earlier than anticipated and that the contractor is completing it well within budget,” said Los Angeles Mayor and Metro Board Chair Antonio Villaraigosa. “It’s another great example of why building in this economy makes excellent business sense, at the same time it provides much needed jobs. And with the Orange Line Extension — the first Measure R project to be completed — we are continuing to build out a new 21st Century mass transit system for the people of Los Angeles and for future generations.”

The Orange Line Extension is the latest addition to Metro’s rapidly expanding transit system and the latest link in the plan for regional connectivity. As part of the existing Orange Line it will run from the Chatsworth Metrolink and Amtrak Station — gateway to Ventura County — to the Metro Red Line Station in North Hollywood. The Red Line connects with the Blue Line to Long Beach, the Gold Line to the Eastside and Pasadena, the Purple Line to Koreatown, the Green Line toward LAX and the Expo Line to Culver City. The rail system alone is 87 miles … all opened since 1990. And it connects with 180 Metro bus routes that crisscross L.A. County.

In addition to free rides all day on the four-mile busway, June 30 celebrations will include community events at the Orange Line Extension Chatsworth and Canoga stations from 10 am. to 4 p.m. Reflecting its history, Chatsworth will host a country/western theme, while Canoga organizers are planning eco-friendly events and food trucks in celebration of the new line.

The project includes four new stations at Sherman Way, Roscoe Boulevard, Nordhoff Street and the Chatsworth Metrolink Station. New platforms are being added at the Canoga Station. An elevated crossing at Lassen Street will keep the busway separated from railroad tracks. All stations will include public art. Parallel to the busway, a bikeway and pedestrian path has been planted with beautiful landscape similar to the drought-tolerant plants along the existing Metro Orange Line. And there will be a new park and ride lot at the Sherman Way Station, as well as additional parking at the Chatsworth Station.

When the 14-mile Orange Line opened in 2005, 7,000 to 8,000 boardings a day were predicted. Now there are more than 25,000 daily boardings. For more information on the Metro Orange Line go to metro.net/projects/orangeline.

52 replies

  1. “In addition to free rides all day on the four-mile busway…”

    Does this mean the whole Orange Line doesn’t have free rides but only the final extension? What if we want to get to the extension from other parts of the Metro system? That doesn’t make a lot of sense.

    • Hi Steve;

      The free rides are only on the Extension between Warner Center and Chatsworth. It’s similar to the recent Expo opening — Expo was free while normal fares applied for the rest of the Metro system.

      Steve Hymon
      Editor, The Source

  2. I knew it was going to be late june. well just in time for anime expo anyways making the trip to and from easier.

  3. There are many students living in the Chatsworth Area that study at Pierce Community College.

    It’ll be interesting to see whether they will commute using the Orange Line, or will stick to driving their cars or commute with a bicycle or a moped instead, considering that paying $75 a month for a short 6.4 miles of commute from Chatsworth to PCC isn’t what I’d call really cheap:

    6.4 mi one-way = 12.8 mi roundtrip
    Average about 5 school days per week = 64 mi of commuting per week
    Times 4 weeks per month = 256 mi of commuting per month
    Cost of Metro 30 day pass = $75 or $0.29 per mi

    In contrast, commuting the same distance with a car that averages 20 MPG at $5.00/gal gas:
    (256 mi / 20 MPG) x $5.00/gal = $64 or $0.25 per mi

    Commuting the same distance with a 100 MPG moped at $5.00/gal gas:
    (256 mi / 100 MPG) x $5.00/gal = $12.80 or $0.05 per mi

    Students living in Chatsworth that study at PCC will be better off just buying a moped to commute.

    • I love math,

      First, I’d urge you to go with AAA’s recommended figure for calculating the cost for operating a car, about $0.60 per mile, which includes other factors like wear-and-tear on tires, breaks and other expensive-to-replace items that slowly break down as you drive. That figure is more than double the figure you get if you only look at the cost of gas. Only looking at the out-of-pocket costs (gas & parking) is an understandable thing to do as a driver, but it tends to mask some of the other high costs of operating a car.

      If you consider how much less you wear out your car if you take Metro a fair amount, it’s turns out that a Metro monthly pass is a great deal for a lot of folks.

      Of course, a moped is a very cheap option as you point out, but for a variety of reasons — safety foremost, but also the difficulty of multitasking and carrying bulky items — only a tiny fraction of Angelenos ride mopeds or motorcycles.

      But above all, the great thing about the Orange Line extension is that it will provide one more high quality option for traveling around the western San Fernando Valley.

      Carter Rubin
      Contributor, The Source

  4. Any word on what the route will be like around/between Canoga Station and Warner Center Station? The new Go Metro map seems to show two endpoints (Warner Center vs. Chatworth) along with a weird connecting triangle shape.

    My hope is that all buses will stop at Warner Center Station enroute to Chatsworth Station, as opposed to some buses terminating at Warner Center and others at Chatsworth. Can anyone shed some light?

    • Hi Alika,

      Here’s some more info on the operating plan for the Orange Line once the extension opens. In short, some of the buses leaving North Hollywood will go to Chatsworth and some to Warner Center, with a shuttle during weekday rush hour linking Chatsworth to Warner Center directly. However, late at night each bus will travel to all stations along the route. So a bus leaving NoHo would first travel to Warner Center and then proceed to Chatsworth.

      Here’s some more info: http://thesource.metro.net/2012/03/08/operating-plan-proposed-for-orange-line-extension/

      Carter Rubin
      Contributor, The Source

    • Hi Alika;

      Here’s a post about the operating plan that the Board of Directors approved for the Orange Line. In short, buses leaving from NoHo will alternate — one will go to Warner Center, the next one will go to Chatsworth. At night, buses will first stop at Warner Center and then continue to Chatsworth. Please see the post for more details.

      Steve Hymon
      Editor, The Source

  5. It’s not really similar to the Expo Opening… because the Expo was an entirely new line, while this is an extension.

    Most people coming out to ride the opening will not be doing so only between the four new stations. The Orange Line in general should be free… otherwise it seems most people will be paying for the Orange Line ride even if they’re riding to or from the new extension because part of the ride takes them on other parts of the line.

  6. There’s also the safety of driving versus the safety of transit to consider. This may depend on individual behavior, but if you are accident prone, if you speed, if you take dangerous risks, it would be more worthwhile to ride transit. This describes college students perfectly. I was an older college student but I still took the bus during undergrad because I don’t want to be hit by my fellow idiot students. I saw plenty of accidents in my time at school. Luckily, I was not apart of them.

    In fact, if you are a college student, switch to pay as you go insurance and take transit for your primary commute.

  7. I love math,

    It is worth noting that Metro’s college pass runs about $30 or so per month.

  8. Mr. Carter,

    As a person who loves doing math, I take AAA’s cost of operating a car equation with a grain of salt. For one, how a person uses their car varies from each car owner. AAA’s $0.60 per mile figure is based upon the fact that people using their car 100% of their needs.

    But when considering that changing times with higher cost of gas and traffic has become less attractive to use the car for 100% of needs, the cost of repairs and maintenance get diluted over time.

    If you don’t use your car except for going out to buy groceries at Costco, do you still calculate it to $0.60 per mile? If you only put in less than 2,500 miles per year on your vehicle, is it fair to assume that you still will need new tires, brakes and oil changes at the same frequency from those that use the vehicle over 10,000+ miles per year?

    No one is required to use the car for 100% of their needs and no one has a need to use their car for 100% of their purposes either. For most commuters, a car is only a item that takes a person from point A to point B. Other than that, 95% of the time, it usually just sits there in the garage or the parking lot.

    Does everyone really need a car to do that? It’s not like people are going to Costco to stock up on groceries everyday. When I’m commuting to work, all I need is a simple backpack which has my iPad and my lunch. I don’t really need a car to carry that, I can do that with a moped, especially so if my commuting needs are less than 10 miles.

    Occasionally I may need to bring a lot of bulky items like a some old furniture that I can donate to a local donation center. I’m not lug around that onto a bus or train either if I can use a car instead.

    And while today it may only be a tiny fraction of Angelinos riding motorcycles and mopeds, but people in LA are realizing that there is an increasing number of motorcyclists and moped riders these days as well. Citing safety concerns as a cause against motorcycle riding is no different than the risk of sharing the road with bicycles. Promoting bicycle ridership on one end but not supporting motorcycle ridership on the other when they both have safety concerns when sharing the road is simply taking sides because motorcycle ridership doesn’t benefit Metro in anyway.

    You need to realize that not every car driver out there is going to switch to public transit. Some just still prefer the freedom of going when they want when they want instead of waiting for the bus. Some also prefer a cheaper method of getting around town than a transit system whose fare structure that makes no distinction of people’s commuting needs. Others, simply do not see a benefit of taking public transit for short distances when biking or walking may actually be faster still.

    Being said that, underestimating the average Angelino’s ability to do math, especially when it comes down to their personal finances, and expecting everyone to take public transit at any price that Metro gives out, is a bit snobbish. IMO, the stance that Metro have taken so far isn’t no more different than oil companies expecting everyone to continue filling up the tank of their cars no matter what the price of oil is.

  9. I love math,

    Your analysis/math is way off. A college pass is only $36 a month not $75. You also failed to include the cost of parking as others have noted. Also, including just the cost of gas in operating a car grossly underrepresents the cost of driving. Even if you have a car sitting around driving it will incur more oil changes, brake replacements, and other maintenance. Ignoring these costs really misrepresents the situation.

    Finally, you assume these students will not ever use transit for anything else except going to school, which can be wildly incorrect. Say this college student wants to go to Hollywood or Downtown on a weekend to have a few drinks and avoid a DUI and expensive parking charges, they already have a pass.

    Sure not every student will choose this nor will it make sense for them to in all cases. Metro is supposed to provide a transit service not make sure every single person in LA County has a financial incentive to use transit in every situation.

  10. I love math makes an excellent point.

    Metro’s objective seems to be trying to move everyone’s transit needs away from the car to public transit. Sorry, it ain’t going to happen.

    I doubt people will be taking the bus and pay $3.00 for a round trip ticket just to go to the supermarket that’s within five miles from their homes. It’s cheaper to drive their car and much easier for people to fill up the groceries in the trunk of their car.

    Metro may be cheap for long distances, but there is very little value of taking public transit for short distances.

  11. According to the last census figures moped, motorcycles, taxis and other vehicles made up less than 1% percent of the mode share in so any increase in their usage would be deemed to “signficant” since they were no so visible in the past.

    Though scooters are more affordable than cars or public transit, they usage is generally limited right now by the “perceived” dangers in riding them. With stories like these http://virginiabeach.injuryboard.com/motorcycle-accidents/increase-in-scooters-on-city-streets-raises-safety-concerns.aspx?googleid=299460 floating every once in a while its no wonder many in Los Angeles, or any other city for that matter in the US, still feel unsafe riding in anything that is not a four wheeled vehicle even if these stories are usually overblown.

  12. Will the bike path be open before the busway or does it too open only on June 30th?

  13. Dan Wentzel:

    The right-of-way should have been an extension of the Red Line, but tunneling was forbidden throughout Los Angeles County by a Westside neighborhood desperate to keep “those people” from coming to their burg.

    As for it being Light Rail in the future, that day may come, but at present the line would be completely separate from the rest of the light rail system (Expo/Blue/Green lines, which are physically connected today and the Gold Line which is planned to be via the Regional Connector very soon). In addition, land will need to be found adjacent to the line for a maintenance facility. Presently the 901 bus line (which is what the “Orange Line” really is) can utilize an existing off-site bus garage. Persons better versed with the bus yards than I can tell you which one.

  14. The Orange Line extension has been a great blessing for the community of Canoga Park. Long gone are the old fences that were along Canoga Ave, a new path for all to enjoy has come its way. Canoga Park has gained great open space the community at large can enjoy. Come celebrate the unveiling on June 30, 2012 with us. The Canoga Park Neighborhood Council – http://www.canogaparknc.org will be working with the Canoga Park/West Hills Chamber of Commerce and other community organizations to bring a great event for the community. As President of the Canoga Park Neighborhood Council, we as a board are excited for the completion of the new Orange Line extension; bringing back a bit of the old Red Car lines back to Canoga Park!!!!

  15. Personally I believe the valley needs more rail lines running through it and to the LA basin, however I suppose this is a step in the right direction. I am less likely to ride a bus over a rail personally but to each his own. One could argue that the busway paves the way for a future rail line and being above ground it opens the door to solar powered transit solutions. Keep expanding metro and I might start to rely on you for day to day needs.

  16. Matt,

    “Say this college student wants to go to Hollywood or Downtown on a weekend to have a few drinks and avoid a DUI and expensive parking charges, they already have a pass.”

    To put it another way, this college student doesn’t have a need to go to Downtown or Hollywood everyday either. So why should this person have to buy a monthly pass for something that he probably only has a need for like once a month? Why wouldn’t this person then, just be better off with a day pass when this person wants to go to Hollywood or Downtown?

    Why wouldn’t this student then just commute with a scooter when when going to school from Chatsworth to PCC, and when this person has a need to go to Hollywood or Downtown, just buy a day pass? See, there’s no need for a monthly pass. Over all, Metro only makes $5 from this person in a month.

    It’s like saying this: you can pay $75 a month, hey you’re getting a great deal because you can go from Pasadena to Long Beach anytime with it! It’s a mislead and majority of Angelinos are smart enough not to fall for that. Most people don’t have a need to travel such long distance frequently. No one is forced to take public transit. We live in a free country with lots of choices.

    Shorter commutes, there are cheaper alternatives. When traveling longer distances which doesn’t happen frequently, just buy a day pass. So long as Metro doesn’t adjust their fare structure to be more competitive on the short distance market, that’s what people are going to do. And that’s why Metro is stuck with a low farebox recovery ratio and poor ridership figures. And that is why our buses and trains are full of people who only make longer trips.

    “Metro is supposed to provide a transit service not make sure every single person in LA County has a financial incentive to use transit in every situation.”

    Any one can provide service, whether that’s good service or bad service is on the eyes of the beholder. And as with anything that provides a service, if there is something better and cheaper, that’s what people are going to go for.

    If I only want to go a mile and I have to be ripped off $1.50 for it while another person can get by traveling 20 miles for the same $1.50 price, I’m just going to say “Metro, your fare system is a joke to expect people to pay $1.50 without distinction of travel distance.” In retrospect they just lost a potential customer for the short distance market and all they gained were longer distance commuters.

    And no, time and time again, Metro has used the words “fare equity.” Unfortunately, Metro has a lot more work to do in terms of fare equity. With higher gas prices, they are succeeding in making many Angelinos move to mass transit. But under this ridiculous fare policy, they are failing in grabbing the short distance rider market. For those that have a short distance need, there are cheaper alternatives like the bicycle and the scooter and they can just easily get by with a day pass when the need to traveling longer distances arises, which doesn’t happen that often.

  17. I thought the bike path was already open. People were using it about a month ago when I was in the area.

    Incidentally a bus every 24 minutes on Saturday and Sunday, and every 20 minutes
    during the middle of the day, is not “high quality” transit. Sure, it’s better than
    existing north south service in the area, but this service level is not conducive to
    people making trips without the need to look at a schedule. Yet it will show up on
    the 15 minute map like all the other colored routes, and people will expect a bus
    there more often than will actually show up. Plus remember there will be confusion at the branch point, with the special Warner Center-Chatsworth buses adding to the mess. I await how MTA staff plan to sign their way out of this.

  18. Matt,

    If all your car use is mainly on local roads, you’ll likely need less repairs and maintenances. You can’t compare an AAA estimated figure that is based on an average of 10,000 miles of usage per year versus someone who uses the car for only 2,500 miles per year.

    An oil change is recommended for cars every 10,000 miles. It costs about $20 to do that at Jiffy Lube. If a person only puts in 2,500 miles of travel on their car per year, that means that person will need an oil change every four years. Same thing with tire changes and other common maintenance. Most of the maintenance like changing the air filters or adding in engine coolant can be done easily by watching youtube anyway. The less you use the car, the cost of maintenance just gets spread out over the years.

    I Love Math has his equation right. AAA’s $0.60/mi figure is a misleading figure that is based upon an average of 10,000 miles of travel per year. Naturally, if more people are using mass transit for longer distances and in conjuction, only use the car for shorter distances for things like going out to buy groceries (parking lots of local supermarkets are free anyway so no cost of parking either) or driving to the nearest park-and-ride lot, the cost of owning a car is much cheaper than the AAA estimate, moreso true if you happen to own a fuel efficient vehicle like a hybrid or an electric car.

  19. This line is an improvement…and goes along way toward completing a transportation gateway around LA. The critical need however, is the 405 Sepulveda corridor from Sherman Oaks Galleria to LAX…and the Aqua Line extension to Santa Monica. Most Valley people have a REALLY difficult time navigating through the 405 fwy congestion to WLA. Expanding the 405 only creates more car traffic! Metro light rail IS the solution.

  20. Y Fukuzawa,

    You are completely missing the point. I Love Math’s analysis only assumes that the student would ever go between their residence and the school and there would never be an opportunity to use transit anywhere else. Of course, that is not true. College students don’t just stay home and go to school at least I didn’t when I was in college. Say they go out Downtown or Hollywood just twice a month. That is $10 of the $36 of the monthly pass right there.

    On the moped issue, that is fine for the fraction of 1% who would use them, but for most people especially a college student who has some education, they would realize that the risk of an accident is far too great, especially in a city like LA with intense traffic where a moped is often hard for cars to see. A small fender bender can even result in serious injury on a moped.

    HK Resident,

    You may not have to use 60 cents a mile, but you have to use a factor that includes much more than the cost of gas, which is what I Love Math’s analysis only used. Your comment that if you use only local roads you will have less maintenance makes no sense whatsoever. Local roads will require you to stop and start more which stresses braking systems and the car in general. Our local roads are a mess and they are filled with potholes which damage tires. I am sure you are joking about only changing your oil every 4 years. Regardless of mileage you should change it at least every 12-18 months. 4 years and you are risking running some very seriously dirty oil through your engine. Overall, you still have to account for changing brake pads, belts, spark plugs, and unforseen repairs, which cost a lot of money and which I Love Math completely ignored. You can skimp on service like you suggest, but you are looking at greatly shortening the lifespan of your vehicle which will likely result in you having to plunk down that $10-$15k down for a used vehicle prematurely. Not wise.

  21. “On the moped issue, that is fine for the fraction of 1% who would use them, but for most people especially a college student who has some education, they would realize that the risk of an accident is far too great, especially in a city like LA with intense traffic where a moped is often hard for cars to see. A small fender bender can even result in serious injury on a moped.”

    Replace the word “moped” with “bicycle” on what you just wrote and you get the same safety concerns. Yet we have a lot more bicyclists these days than ten years ago.

    Ten years ago, people thought it was suicidal to ride a bike and share the road with cars, especially in Los Angeles. It was rare to see people on bicycles, they were the 1% back then and we didn’t have cyclic masses. Instead, as gas prices rose we now have more bicyclists on the road.

    Who’s to say that ten years from now, we’re not going to see more moped riders as well? Who’s to say that ten years from now those that are riding bicycles or driving cars today see that moped ownership is much more efficient than bicycling (faster) and owning a car or riding public transit (cheaper)? Who’s to say that car drivers in Los Angeles won’t adapt and get used to moped riders and motorcyclists sharing the road as with bicyclists today?

    In fact, it already is changing. Look around and you see more people driving Harleys and scooters these days, just as we saw a gradual increase in bicyclists ten years ago.

    And whose to say that people won’t adapt to choosing different means of transportation as they see fit? Bicycles to go within a mile from your home. A moped within 10 miles. Heading to Downtown, buy a Metro day pass. Heading off to Vegas or buying groceries at the supermarket, take the car.

  22. Thanks, Steve H., for clarifying the route. I must admit, however, that it’s a bit disappointing to hear of the unusually complex handling of the Warner Center routing. Not that this comment will change things, but may I suggest that if Metro doesn’t want to run all buses to the Chatsworth terminus at all times, then a short line setup would make more sense to riders (i.e. All buses run through Warner Center, but some terminate there and others rejoin the ROW to continue on to Chatsworth). That the Blue Line already uses such a setup means it would be a more familiar practice for Metro riders and simpler to explain to new and current users alike. That, and it may make the Go Metro map a bit less confusing. 🙂 Thanks for keeping us in the loop, though!

  23. Frank M.

    Bicycles generally ride in bike lanes, bike paths, and bike routes and not in the general flow of traffic. The main reason cycling is becoming more popular in LA is that there is much more in the way of bike lanes and paths and even sharrows that make a difference. Cycling can still be dangerous, but it is no where near the level of a moped.

    Motorcycles travel at much faster speeds than bicycles. Not too long ago a motorcycle came out of nowhere and tried to pass me on the right at a high rate of speed on a surface street. He was in my blind spot when I tried to change lanes and luckily noticed him just as I was making the switch. There was no doubt he would have been killed or maimed for life had I not noticed him at the last second or if I had made the lane change just slightly quicker as many Angelenos do.

    Y Fukuzawa was talking about a student taking a moped from Chatsworth to Hollywood or Downtown. To do that unless you want to take two hours, you are going to use the freeway. That is completely different than bicycle travel so the analogy between bikes is not comparable here. Sure you may see a few more mopeds, but the overall number is immaterial and it is highly unlikely to change even with higher gas prices. The vast majority of people simply do not want to risk their lives to save a couple of dollars.

  24. There seems to be a misconception regarding cost per mile for some. Reduced vehicle usage would lead to lower annual costs, but a HIGHER cost per mile.

    Consider that some vehicle maintenance is also recommended by time (i.e. oil change); operating your vehicle less than 10,000 miles annually would actually increase your cost per mile (though marginally small) because the maintenance is being associated with a lower overall mileage. Your annual cost would be smaller by comparison (2,000 x $0.60+ rather than 10,000 x $0.60), but the incremental cost per mile is higher. Also, as previously pointed out, short local trips tend to cause more wear and tear on the vehicle than long trips, which would also correspond to an increased cost per mile.

  25. Matt,

    You misread my post. I said:

    “Why wouldn’t this student then just commute with a scooter when when going to school from Chatsworth to PCC, and when this person has a need to go to Hollywood or Downtown, just buy a day pass?”

    I never said anything about using a moped all the way from Chatsworth to Hollywood. I said just use a scooter for Chatsworth-PCC which is cheaper than taking public transit because of the short distance, and if that student ever has a need to go to Downtown or Hollywood, buy a Metro Day Pass. Scooter for shorter trips within SFV + buying a Metro Day Pass for longer trips from SFV to the LA Basin (if the student has a need for it) still comes around cheaper than a Metro 30 day pass.

    In the end, Metro only gets $5 for a long trip from the SFV to Downtown LA which is an operating loss to Metro.

  26. Lower annual costs means more money in your wallet at the end of the year far outweighs the marginally small higher cost per mile especially at these gas prices.

    If I was originally spending $4,000 in the cost of ownership of a car per year by driving it 10,000 miles per year and that gets down to $1,000 by driving only 2,500 miles a year, I end up saving $3,000.

    I could careless if the difference jumps up from $0.60/mi to $0.65/mi for driving less, in the end, I’m going to end up saving $3,000 year after year and that’s what all that matters. With the amount that I’m ending up saving, in three years I can just sell my car (lower odometer mileage, higher resale value!) and use that additional savings to trade it in for a more fuel efficient hybrid vehicle.

    The point of using brake pads as an example is stupid. You are forgetting that people already use their cars today for local travel along with commuting. Knock off the commuting part, which takes up most of your driving miles, especially in stop-and-go traffic on the “four-or-five” your brake pads still are better off at lower mileage driving.

  27. Frank M,

    The point of using brake pads as an example is stupid. You are forgetting that people already use their cars today for local travel along with commuting.

    The example is taking the bus vs. driving a car. Many on this board seem to feel that the cost of driving the car only entails the cost of gas as evidenced by their comparison of the cost of transit vs. driving. I take exception with that as you have to take into account the maintenance and depreciation costs associated with driving.

    If you are taking the bus you are not driving your car at the same time. If you drive the distance instead of taking the bus, you have to account for the added maintenance burden on the vehicle including all sorts of wear and tear including brake pads. It really is quite simple so I am not sure where the confusion is.

  28. Hello,

    I love taking the Metro Orange Line; it has cut my commuting cost in half. I do have one question for the Orange Line extension set to open on June 30th. This by the way will allow me to walk to the Orange instead of driving to a park and ride like I have to do currently. Anyway back to my question; do you know how the extension will work at the Canoga station? Will the bus have to leave the line to pick up people at the Warner Center transit Hub as it does now? Or will this extension stay on the Line and not need to go to the Warner Center transit hub?

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my question.
    Herbert Hemenover

    • Hi Herbert;

      There will be alternating service seven days a week, meaning there will be buses running between NoHo and Chatsworth Station and buses running between NoHo and Warner Center, along with additional service during peak hours between Chatsworth and Warner Center. During late night hours, there is no alternating service. All buses will stop at NoHo, Warner Center and Chatsworth.

      Hope that helps,

      Steve Hymon
      Editor, The Source

  29. Matt,

    The flaw in your logic is expecting everyone who own cars will move to public transit for 100% of their needs. Sad to say, with the way Metro has its fare structures and the waste of time waiting for the bus just for the sake of traveling short distances, it’s not going to happen. It’s not really simple as “the bus vs the car,” but it’s “IN WHAT SITUATION WOULD I OPT TO USE the bus vs the car”

    It’s plainly simple. Just ask yourself: do you take Metro to go grocery shopping? Do you use Metro to go to your neighborhood bank to withdraw cash at the ATM? Do you use Metro to visit your high school buddy who invited over you to dinner and lives three miles away? Use Metro to buy office supplies at your neighborhood Staples or Office Depot? Use Metro to go make copies at Kinkos or send something by FedEx? Use Metro to visit your local post office to pick up a package or buy stamps? Use Metro to go to the nearest shopping mall, Target, BestBuy, or Home Depot? You local movie theater? Take Metro to take your grandkids to Santa Monica in the weekend?

    You don’t and most Angelinos don’t either. All these short trips are just too inefficient, costly, and a waste of time to do by with public transit. It’s faster, cheaper, and more efficient to do these short trip needs with a car. And I highly have my doubts that rebuilding the entire City of LA to a more compact, dense city with affordable high rise condos with all those things within walking distance is going to happen within ten years either.

    If you think that’s not true, go use Metro’s own trip planner. Strangely, it never shows an AAA cost comparison for short trips. Gee I wonder why.

    So what do most logical minded people do? They don’t switch 100% to the bus or train, they fractionalize their transit habits. Within a mile, walk or ride a bicycle. Within five miles of your neighborhood like going grocery shopping, drive the car. If you work within 10 miles, learn how to ride a scooter. If you only need to travel long distances less frequently, just buy a day pass for that purpose. If you work over 10 miles then finally you’re justified to get a monthly pass.

    And if that’s all you’re going to use the car for, shorter trips only, then there’s less miles onto it so the cost of maintenance like brake pads last longer. If you have 30,000 mi brake pads and all you do is put 2,500 miles on to the car per year, you wouldn’t need a brake job for 12 years. In comparison, if you put in over 10,000 miles per year, you’re going to need a brake job every 3 years.

    And as for the “if all you do is shorter trips, that would just make brake pads wear out faster because you hit the brakes more” rebuttal, like I said, most people already do short trips today in conjunction with regular day to day commuting and the brakes still last as fine at 30,000 miles. Knock off the commuting part which is the main portion of adding miles to your odometer every year, all you’re left with is the short trips.

    It’s really quite simple, I don’t understand where the confusion is.

  30. If you are commuting to school or work and you live within 2 miles of a Orange Line station, then ride a bike to the bus stop and park it or put it on one of the triple bike racks attached to the front of the bus. After 10 PM, when the passenger load is lower, most bus drivers will allow up to 2-3 bikes inside as the amount of waiting passengers with bikes increases significantly for each bus in these late hours, especially on a Saturday, where I have seen up to 9-11 passengers waiting with bikes along the existing Orange Line stations heading east from Canoga Ave to the final stop at the North Hollywood station.

  31. Frank M.

    You misrepresent what I said and make up things that I did not say. No where did I say or insuate I expect people who own cars to use public transit for 100% of their needs. I simply argued that I Like Math’s analysis was flawed for a variety of reasons, which I pointed out in detail. You somehow don’t like the argument so like a small child you simply make up things I didn’t say to argue against that and make yourself feel better.

    Using the example discussed previously, yes someone who is driving to Pierce College from Chatsworth will wear out their brakes and other car components faster than someone who uses the bus for these trips. Simply using gasoline costs to compare driving vs. other forms is incorrect because of this. Plain and simple point. Whatever you are discussing does not prove anything away from the above point.

    Very few people have a car and a scooter. In fact, I know this will be hard for you to believe, but the average bus patron travels 4 miles.

    Anyway, we have gotten away from the nature of the post, especially with these arguments against things people didn’t even say so I think this thread is more than played out.

  32. I hope metro looks into getting double articulated 80ft buses to run on the orange line since light rail is not going to happen anytime soon. The line really needs the additional capacity especially on the east end of the valley.

  33. Even shortline buses from Sepulveda, running a couple of minutes in front of the long line buses, would help. Unfortunately the Orange Line was never designed for this capability.

  34. At least the orange line buses are comfortable. I cant stand riding on the articulated rapid buses, back-killers.

  35. “In fact, I know this will be hard for you to believe, but the average bus patron travels 4 miles.”

    How does Metro even know this to be the case and where do you get the data from? We don’t have a tap-in/tap-out system to know how far the average Metro rider rides the bus for.

    We don’t have some magical NASA made technology with a satellite database uplink that scans that a person getting on the bus at point A is the same person who got off 4 miles away at point B. I doubt bus drivers have photographic memories or writes down a note that “red shirted white male, age 40, got on the bus at Wilshire/Western, got off at Wilshire/La Brea.”

  36. Average length for a bus trip is quite simple since the automatic passenger counter tracks ons and offs and is linked to the GPS. The trip information just needs to be calculated in aggregate to determine trip lengths, and no tracking of passengers is required. You can do the math yourself by dividing passenger miles by passenger trips.

    • Folks:

      This is a post about the Orange Line Extension — not about fare media, fare policy, etc. Please stay on topic for the readers who actually want to read about the Orange Line.

      Thanks

      Steve Hymon
      Editor, The Source

  37. The Orange Line can be drastically improved by making sure the buses NEVER have to stop for a single red light. Those lights should be green a few seconds BEFORE the Orange Line buses even reach an intersection regardless of surface street traffic (and all they have to do is to install pavement signal sensors 1/4 mile before each intersection). I mean, why would someone want to get out of their car and use the Orange Line if it gets stuck at the exact same intersections they’re already stuck at in their cars?

    Safety-wise, the two biggest problems with the Orange Line, which are easily correctable, are the placement of the “No Turn On Red” signs and the traffic signals installed for folks using the bike route, which are very confusing for traffic running parallel to the busway. In the former, the signs should be moved right next to the right-turn signals for maximum visibility. (Right now they are several feet above the signals themselves. And, actually, they should exchange the current “No Turn on Red” signs for the much better “No Turn on Red Arrow” signs.) And the unnecessary signals need to be removed; I think most cyclists understand the concept of the pedestrian crossing signals that are already in place. If Metro feels further clarification is needed, then they can install a white-lit bicycle signal next to the white-lit pedestrian signal; the flashing (or steady) red hand is universal for both cyclists and pedestrians. (Of course, the biggest danger, which Metro doesn’t seem to want to address, is the massive overcrowding on these buses, especially between the North Hollywood Station and the Reseda Station. They simply refuse to recognize the need for more buses. They will… after the first big accident––and subsequent litigation. But they seemingly can’t do ANYTHING until enough folks get killed. True genius, huh?)

    Also, hopefully the Orange Line will eventually convert to an elevated monorail like the system in Vancouver, BC. These monorails are so quiet that it would put the NIMBY issue to rest and allow elevated monorail transport to spread throughout L.A. (and the San Fernando Valley needs this particularly along Ventura Blvd. and along Van Nuys Blvd. through the Sepulveda Pass to LAX). It would also allow the expansion of the Orange Line eastward to areas such as Burbank Airport and the Burbank Media Center, Griffith Park & L.A. Zoo, Glendale and Eagle Rock, and then connect with the Gold Line in Pasadena (with a possible extension to Pasadena City College). And it’s one heckuva lot quieter, faster, safer, and cheaper to install and run than is “light rail”.

    The Valley also needs to start putting the screws to Villaraigosa and the rest of the Metro Board. The Expo Line runs down an abandoned rail right-of-way just like the Orange Line; yet they got a train (and it doesn’t stop for ANYTHING but passengers!). Yaroslavsky’s office claims the Expo Line’s ridership is WAY higher than the Orange Line’s. I don’t care. The next time the issue of Valley secession comes up, compare the Orange Line to any of the dedicated transit corridors in L.A. proper. To put it quite bluntly, it’s a joke and an insult.

  38. To: Steve Hymon

    Hi, Steve,

    So does that mean that you’ll need to transfer buses at the Canoga Station or Warner Center Station to get from Chatsworth to North Hollywood? Or will there be Orange Line buses that will stay on the busway the entire trip and bypass Warner Center? That’s what I’d like to see happen. (Actually, I like to see a free Warner Center shuttle between the Canoga Station and the Warner Center area (or, even better, a DASH bus that would drop people at a variety of stations even closer to where they work in Warner Center. Of course, if the Orange Line would eventually morph into an elevated monorail as I recently suggested in my post, then the detour to Warner Center barely add any time on to the overall trip.)

    • Hi David;

      There will be buses running directly from Chatsworth Station to North Hollywood via the Canoga Station. There will also be buses running directly between NoHo and Warner Center as well as buses running between Chatsworth and Warner Center (during peak hours). Please see this previous post on the operating plan for the Orange Line.

      Steve Hymon
      Editor, The Source

  39. Steve,

    Great to hear that the Warner Center stop will still be easy to get to after the extension opening.